# Portal talk:Mathematics

 The Mathematics Portal is a featured portal, which means it has been identified as one of the best portals on Wikipedia. If you see a way this portal can be updated or improved without compromising previous work, please feel free to contribute.
 Please use this talk page only for discussions related to the Mathematics Portal. For discussion of mathematics on Wikipedia go to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Mathematics. Got a mathematics question? See the Mathematics Reference Desk. If you have suggestions for future featured articles, pictures, and factoids on this portal go to Portal:Mathematics/Suggestions. For discussion about Portals generally, please see the WikiProject on Portals.

### Structure

This portal is built using a series of subpages—one for each of the boxes. For details on this see Wikipedia:Portal. These subpages may be found at

The box formatting pages are

Archives of the featured articles, pictures, and factoids may be found at

The following pages are deprecated, because the portal transcludes the relevant sub-sub-page autmatically, depending on the week or month:

### History

This portal was created on 10 February 2005 by User:Ral315. It was initially at Wikipedia:Wikiportal/Mathematics. On 16 July 2005 the portal was merged into Category:Mathematics by User:DavidLevinson. The Portal namespace was created around 27 August 2005, but the mathematics portal remained in the category namespace until 21 December 2005 when User:Fplay moved it to its present location at Portal:Mathematics.

The present maintainer of this portal is User:Fropuff (who gladly welcomes anyone else who wishes to participate).

## Integration of the pages needing attention in mathematics

Is there a good way to integrate Wikipedia:Pages needing attention/Mathematics into the portal, so that we have a division of labour with the COTW? Perhaps the way to look at it, is that the Mathematics Requested Articles page already does plenty of heavy lifting, in producing wanted articles; and that the Pages Needing Attention is relatively neglected. Promoting selected pages from either of those, selectively, to the COTW Candidates, would be a good thing. But the Portal ought to give a full picture. Charles Matthews 07:54, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I agree. I've made a first attempt at incorporating both pages into the portal page, by adding them to the "Things you can do" section of the portal page. I think we should also mention those lists as possible sources for the COTW probably on that page. What do you think? Paul August 15:44, Feb 17, 2005 (UTC)
Well I guess User:Ral315 didn't like my changes and has since reverted them. Paul August 18:46, Feb 17, 2005 (UTC)

## Program to plot functions

I just found a freeware program to draw functions. It can be found at http://www.geonext.de/ It can also be started as an Java Applet at http://geonext.uni-bayreuth.de/data/start.html Stern 03:03, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)

There are a number of inexpensive (some free) and expensive (Mathematica) visualization tools. Would someone care to create a "Tools" section of the Mathematics page with a discussion of the more useful and affordable ones? And URL links to them? FrankFerguson 28 Sept. 2006

Erm - I'm working on a program to create high-quality plots of functions (and inequalities too) that are nicely anti-aliased to the BG-2 / BG-3 level. Would a (GFDLed) consistent collection of such plots be a useful addition to Wikipedia? And if so, what would be the best way to proceed? Chris, 20:46, 20 Nov 2006 (UTC)

## Negative numbers

Hi there! I've been wondering about something and couldn't find it in WP, and this seemed like an appropriate place to ask... when (and by who) as the concept of negative numbers invented? Sounds like interesting historical trivia. Radiant_* 14:01, Apr 11, 2005 (UTC)

Negative and non-negative numbers says Brahmagupta. Double-entry book-keeping and plus and minus signs also have relevant history. Charles Matthews 15:15, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

## VfD

Someone has listed Pearson distribution for deletion:

For some reason this is picking up mainly delete votes, and I don't understand why. It's not my field but I know this is a fairly popular distribution nowadays. Any help with cleanup, keep votes, etc, welcome. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 00:49, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)

## Random Mathematics page?

I'm not sure if this is possible, but I would like to see a "Random Mathematics page" link on the portal, ideally with an url attached to it (this would be my ideal home page!). Anyone know if you can add any useful arguments to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Randompage?

I think that's a great idea, but I have no clue on how to do it... I guess one could tag each math page and use the same function the random page uses, but limit to those pages that are tagged. This could be expanded to any tag... and would be pretty interesting. Goldencako 01:14, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
I proposed this in general proposals, preferable it would work with any critiria, but I had mathematics in mind. I have no idea how to implement it though. --Macbi 18:54, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
Apparently nothing came from it. Thanks for proposing it though, I don't/didn't know how to do that. Anways, I checked the http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Special_page for the random article, and I found out that adding another namespace like this: Special:Randompage/Talk or Special:Randompage/Category, one generates a random page that fits that namespace. However, I tried Special:Randompage/Category:Mathematics, and that didn't work. -> Goldencako 02:11, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

## Math Collaboration

The article that is the current math collaboration should have a message box at the top stating this, similar to, for example, the box at the top of general COTW articles, Stone Age >>. This would at least tell peopele that the article is the collboration. Phoenix2 22:40, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)

## Customization

Now that the Math portal is no longer using the PortalPage template, you have an opportunity to further customize the portal. Take a look at how Philosophy has use that opportunity to good effect. -- Fplay 20:54, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

I undid Fplay's edits, they don't make any sense. When people disagree, they should discuss rather than fork things. Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 01:24, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

## Maintenance

Since the creater of this portal (User:Ral315) seems to have abandonded it, it seems that no one is bothering to maintain this portal. This is a pretty sad state of affairs for a page that is linked to from the main page. I've decided to do what I can to maintain it. Any help from the members of the mathematics Wikiproject is appreciated.

I've restructured the page to bring it in line with the recommendations at Wikipedia:Portal. Let me know if you don't like the colors (I'm a mathematician, not a graphic design artist). I'll try to update the featured article/picture at least once a month.

I'm not sure what to do about the Collaboration of the Week thing, as no one seems to participate in that. I'll leave it in place for now. -- Fropuff 20:40, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

I'll take over the Collaboration of the Week duties. I hope we can get this community back together to work on some articles! Meekohi 19:22, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
I don't think the portal was a good idea to start with. :) And moving it out from the Category:Mathematics to its own page was bad also. :)
I have all those templates on my watchlist, just to watch for vandals, but I don't plan to do work on that. So, good luck, let us hope there will be more interest in this portal. :) Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 22:07, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
PS I just looked at the reorganized thing. Looks good, thanks. Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 22:13, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I don't think the whole portal thing was a great idea either. But it's here now, and it's serving as the "main entry page" into the mathematics portion of Wikipedia, so I guess we better do our best to maintain it. Your help with vandal watching is appreciated. -- Fropuff 22:46, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Personally I enjoy the portal and use it as my main bookmark for Wikipedia. I check it daily and will do my best to keep it updated and contribute as I can. Cleverbeans 23:52, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

## Core topics -- Version 1.0

Hello. I'm part of Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Core topics working toward a release version of Wikipedia (on paper or CD).

If you're interested in helping, these are some related articles we plan to include:

Thanks.

## Rotation of Functions using complex numbers.

General Equations for two dimensional functions.

x = real(z * (t + d(f(t),t,n) * i) * ir + a + b * i), y = imag(z * (t + d(f(t),t,n) * i) * ir + a + b * i)

The above two equations completely define the two dimensional plane for all f(t), so that any f(t) may be zoomed by z, rotated by quadrant r, or translated by a+bi. Further all forms of f(t) obtained by any zoom, rotation, or translation will be similar to the original f(t). Also integrations or derivatives of degree (n) are valid if applied to the original f(t) prior to application of the above equations. If a=0 and b=0 and r=0 and z=1 then f(t) exists in a normal plane. Rotations are achieved by changing the value r from 0 to 4 as the rotation moves from 0 to 360. The possibility of expressing quadrants as partial values is fully defined by this method. The points lying on f(t) take the form of complex coordinates in the form of (x+yi). Translations are performed by adding (a+bi) to (t+f(t)i) thus moving all points to new locations in the plane. In both rotation and translation the similarity of the new (t+f(t)i) to the original f(t) is exactly similar. The z factor may range from - infinity to + infinity. At zero, the function becomes extinct. At negative values of z f(t) is reversed. At positive values f(t) enlarges as z approaches infinity. The same is true for negative values except the effect is completely reversed. This method allows for expression of f(t) in any rotation, zoom, or translation in the original plane, without rotating or distorting the plane in any way. Only the f(t) is changed. The coordinates of points on all similar constructions of f(t) are completely defined, as well as the complex coordinates of f(t) belonging to the plane. Derivatives of f(t) with respect to the variable t in are expressed in degree (n) by the expression: d(f(t),t,n. If n=0 the the expression defaults to f(t). Negative (n) yeilds integrals of f(t). (Lyricist 16:19, 3 May 2006 (UTC))

## Discussing mathematical articles

Is there a talk page to discuss on the articles and topics about mathematics with other interested wikipedians?--Pokipsy76 20:03, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

This would be about the only general talk page to talk about any and all mathematical articles. But you would be better off if you talked on a specific article's Talk page. (Discussion). If it is red, you can make or start off the discussion if you arent certain about something or for some other reason.

If you just want someone to talk to about interesting things that want to know about in mathematics, then I think you should either read the articles or research them, or talk to a specific math-oriented wikipedian on their talk page. I would be interested in that, but it isnt something that I think is allowed because it isnt very purposeful in relation to Wikipedia, and the people keeping the place up try hard with donations and all to make this free for everyone, we shouldnt waste their memory. 68.99.18.96 20:44, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

## Gosh Numbers

I will copy this to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Mathematics where it belongs. Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 06:40, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

## Correction to quintic equation "Did you know"

It is known that quintic equations are not solvable by radicals--that is, no formula of the form x = f(c0,c1,c2,c3,c4,c5) (where the ci are coefficients of the quintic and x is a root) with f created by adding, subtracting, multiplying, dividing, and taking integer powers and roots of the ci and complex numbers, exists. However, such formulas could exist if you do not restrict yourself to these operations (e.g. if you allow integration). I corrected the statement to reflect this.--Todd 18:08, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

## Math by Country

I suggest to add at the end of the portal a list of countries which link to math studies developed on each one through history.--Walter Humala 01:01, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

## Kerala school?

What do you guys think about the Kerala School article and the possible transmission of mathematics from Kerala to Europe? Should the theory get a mention on our articles about calculus, newton, wallis etc? Frankly, I'm a bit alarmed about the points brought up here. Borisblue 07:51, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Please see here. -- thunderboltza.k.a.Deepu Joseph |TALK14:46, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
I see that thunderboltz is off for a while, so I'm just leaving a short note here to indicate I think he may not just be whistling Dixie. Trade between Kerala and Arabia is older than Islam, and the Portugese established a settlement in Cochin in 1503. Ideas could, conceivably, have passed through say Turkey into Europe pre-1500, and directly via sea routes after 1500. DavidCBryant 19:09, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

## Topics section - move to top?

I was considering moving the "Topics in Mathematics" box to the top, just undeneath the intro box. What do people think? Tompw 12:04, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

I'll give this a tentative "no" at this point for two reasons. First, the topics section is kind of like a "see also" section which generally appears at the bottom. Secondly, I think it strengthens the page to have an interesting featured article and picture closer to the top. capitalist 02:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

## Six

It seems to be suggesting that 6 is the first composite number. Surely this depends where you start, but using the conventional approach of starting at 1 and working upwards, you get to 4 first. Stephen B Streater 17:25, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

I seem to have misread this - glad I went to talk first. Stephen B Streater 08:45, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

## Double-column formatting

The column formatting isn't working right in (at least) IE 5.0 on Windows 2000 Pro, 1024×768, normal size fonts. The second column of boxes is being pushed down the page to appear under the last box of the left column. I've had bad experiences in the past trying to reformat these kinds of div-aligned boxes before, so I'll leave it for someone else to try to rectify the situation. Using a table would make the formatting more robust, but I guess someone has a problem with using tables in this way? - dcljr (talk) 23:08, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

## Topics in Mathematics box - delete some sections?

An anonymous user added a "probability" section (bringing the total number of sections to 11), which pushed the two row format of the box passed its asthetic limits. Consequently, I changed the format to three rows of four, and then added a "Mathmaticans" section into the empty space, bringing the total number of sections to 12.

I am now wondering if the box has too many sections. I personally feel that the number of sections shoudl be decreased to eight, with cuts coming as follows:

• Delete "General" section, and put contents in "Where to start" box at top of portal (there's a major overlap as it is).
• Put contents of "probability and statistics" section back into "Applied Maths" section
• Delete just-created "mathmaticians" section (no one will miss it)
• Delete "Important theorems" section, and maybe distribute contents amongst relevant boxeds (e.g. four colour theorem into "geometry and topology").

What do people think? Tompw 23:07, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Let's keep it either 8 or 12; 4 columns seem ideal. I'm in favor of your suggestion. Although I think I'd pefer to keep the "General" section and delete the "Mathematical physics" section. This seems like it belongs more in the Physics portal (Note: I am myself a theoretical physicist). -- Fropuff 00:15, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
Everythign under the Math Phys section is listed under the Physics portal, so no loss there. I would suggest keeping Mathematical physics and Statistical mechanics under the Applied section though. Tompw 11:33, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

What I've done:

• Deleted Math Phys section, and put Mathematical physics and Classical mechanics under the Applied section
• Put contents of Probability and statistics section back into Applied section
• Deleted recently-created Mathmaticians section (no one will miss it)
• Deleted Important theorems section, and maybe distribute contents amongst relevant boxes
• Arrange the boxes so the smaller ones are on the top row.

I'll leave this here for a while for comments/suggestions. Also, can anyone suggest a useful icon for the Analysis section? (I moved the x/y icon to algebra). Tompw 17:59, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

This setup looks really good to me! The only thing I've noticed is that there's no graphic in the Analysis block. What about a basic curved function of some kind like a parabola, maybe with a tangent line somewhere along the curve? Or even simpler, just a dX/dY up in the corner... capitalist 02:46, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
Glad you like it. If you want such a grpahic, I reccomend you create it... :-) Tompw 10:31, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
It looks like you used something called "Nuvola" for most of the graphics. I found their site and did a search for "mathematics" but the search came up empty. After searching around Wikipedia for a while on the subject of obtaining or creating images, my time benefit/cost ratio started to drop dramatically, so I'm satisfied to see the Analysis block remain imageless for the time being. capitalist 04:07, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
If you check the history, you'll find the graphic I originally used for the analysis section. I think it works fine. I would also switch the rows around with algebra/analysis/geo&top/applied on the top row. These are the main branches of mathematics and should be given prominence. -- Fropuff 07:17, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
The history goes back to 2005 so that would be quite a search project. I checked the article itself and the icon for analysis is the one being proposed for the Algebra section here. There is no icon in the Algebra section in the article. As for rearranging the sections, I think we at least need to keep General and Foundations on top, but that only leaves two more choices for what to have on top. Actually, as I think about it, the present arrangement makes a sort of sense, because Number Theory and Discrete Mathematics deal with natural numbers and integers, which are more "basic" than the real and complex numbers that the other subjects deal with. capitalist 02:32, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
Capitalist is right - I used the "x/y" icon for algebra rather than analysis, as it seemed better suited for me. I'm not really sure what would be suitable for analysis... (maybe an icon with "ε > 0", seeing as every proof in a first-year analysis course starts with "Given ε > 0 ..." ).
With regard to the which boxes go where... I grouped them so that the boxes on each row are all a similar size. I put the smaller ones on the top, because I felt that was more asthetically pleasing. We could probably find 40319 people who would each a different way of doing it, and all with very good mathematical reasons for their configuration. (Fropuff and capitalist have both given perfectly good reasons for their layouts). This is why I ignored the mathematical arguments, and went with I felt looked "nice". :-)
Unless people have any more comments about the content of the boxes, I shall implement the above layout. We can always continue the discussion with regards layout seperately. Tompw 11:55, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
There's a nice f(x) icon here: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Mathematical_analysis. However, I've been looking through Wiki Commons and still am at a loss to figure out where these "Nuvola" images come from. capitalist 02:49, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
<--- I've implemented the above version of the table. Could someone who knows how copy the commons image across? Tompw 14:56, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

## Commendation...

I just wanted to point out that this is a nice portal! Compared to a lot of other portals this one is really well ordered, interesting, not to mention aesthetically appealling. Keep up the good work! Angrynight 04:37, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

## Article of the week

As I've been trying to update the slected article box on a weekly basis, I've changed the name of the box to "Article of the week". I try and update it on a Sunday, so if Monday rolls round and the article hasn't changed, then feel free to leave a message on my talk page by way of reminder. (I tend to be absent-minded sometimes). Alternatively, update it yourself :-) ... I've been using Featured articles or articles rated A-Class on the Mathematics articles by quality list, with a bias towards those articles on more obscure areas of maths, and whivch have a leading picture. I tend to simply copy the introduction and said picture. Tompw 11:09, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

The last two weeks I've created the Article of the Day page for the portal. I will start checking on Friday to see if a page is ready for the following week and if not I'll create a new on over the weekend rather then waiting. I'll start pulling from the Mathematics articles by quality list for ideas as well. Cleverbeans 21:04, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Instead of waiting for the next week to roll around, I'm going to create the articles in advance. If anyone has suggestions please feel free to discuss them here. Cleverbeans 12:48, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

## Problem pictures

what are the wiki codes for the problems that become pic after editing ex. $\bigwedge_{\alpha\in J} x_\alpha$

I don't understand what you are asking. Perhaps the text at Help:Formula answers your question? -- Jitse Niesen (talk) 03:15, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

## Layout / "Did you know"

I trimmed down the DYK list so prevent a gap apearing above the Topics box. The cuts were fairly hefty, as I also added some new items at the top. The required length of list varies accroding to the contents article of the week / picture of the month. Consequently, could I suggest that people add new items onto the top of the DYK list when it needs to be made longer, and remove from the bottom when it gets shorter? As one of these needs to be done whenever the featured article/picture is changed, it should mean a nice turnover in the DYK list. Tompw 12:15, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

## Proposal to change inline mathematics into sans-serif

There is currently a proposal suggesting this addition:

span.texhtml {
font-family: sans-serif;
}


This would mean that inline mathematics would be displayed in sans-serif rather than serif. This proposal was shot down twice before, but it seems that the strange nature of Wikipediamocratics allow for it to be suggested a third time. Maybe you would like to take a look there and partake in the discussion. —msikma <user_talk:msikma> 19:53, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

## Lack of references in mathematics articles

Just wanted to give you guys a heads up that in the course of perusing various mathematics articles recently I noticed a surprising number of them had no cited references. The information was accurate in these articles, far as I could tell, but they had little or no external citation. It might be a good idea for someone in this project with access to appropriate texts to try and add references that direct readers to verification.

In particular, it would be very nice if articles that state a theorem provide a reader with a citation that leads to an actual proof of that theorem. I've had a few times now where I read something, said "Hmm, that sounds true", but then wasn't quite sure how to go about proving it. Providing a reference or link to actual proofs would be a nice educational aid. Just a thought. Dugwiki 22:29, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

The best place for discussing this is over at WikiProject Mathematics. However, I will say that the main reason maths articles don't get written with inline citations is that they tend to get out of mathmaticians own knowledge, and they learnt it from a lecture at some point. Hence the lack of formal references. Tompw 22:42, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
You're right, I posted this in the wrong forum. I'll move this post to the Wikiproject mentioned above, as suggested. As far as articles being written from personal knowledge, I agree that this is probably the problem. The information is correct, but they're not citing sources or are using other Wiki articles as references. Really what you're technically supposed to do to demonstrate that you're not using "original research" to construct the article is provide an external reference, like a textbook for example, that verifies the information. Dugwiki 17:11, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

## Experts needed

A category for articles that need expert assistance from those with knowledge of Arts has been created and articles are being sorted into the category (Category:Pages needing expert attention from the Mathematics Portal). I would like to propose adding a reference to this on the portal page, perhaps in the Projects section so that those with expertise in Mathematics would be made aware of it and would have a link to it.

Make that Category:Pages needing expert attention from Mathematics experts. --Brad Beattie (talk) 12:19, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

## Non-expert comprehension of mathematics articles

Is it just me, or do a lot of mathematics articles need to be improved for readability by those with less experience with mathematics?

Or is it just the nature of mathematics, that even basic comprehension of complicated mathematical concepts require extensive familiarization with underlying concepts? -FrostyBytes 20:21, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

This page is for discussion of the mathematics portal. The place to discuss mathematics on Wikipedia is Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Mathematics. -- Fropuff 01:15, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
Thank you. I'll do that and keep it in mind from now on. -FrostyBytes 01:39, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

## Semi-protection

I'm thinking about semi-protecting this portal and some of its subpages due to its high visibility and high rate of vandalism. Looking through the history shows a vandalism rate around one every other day, almost all from unregistered users. Substantive, edits, on the other hand are few and far between and almost all from registered users. What do people think? -- Fropuff 02:49, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

P.S. Actually the vandalism rate is much higher if you take the portal and all its subpages together. -- Fropuff 02:50, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm in. I've noticed the same thing and it's a huge waste of time to review revisions every day which just consist of vandalism and reverts. capitalist 03:32, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Great idea, the portal has indeed a very high visibility and is victim of vandalism almost every day. I'm repeating what have been said, well just to say that I think it would be a good thing Dravick 03:36, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree - the only edits I see on my watchlist relatin to this portal are reverts, so I can't easily tell if proper chnageds have been made. Tompw (talk) 22:18, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Since no one has objected, I've gone ahead and semi-protected the main portal page and the intro box. I may semi-protected other boxes if it seems necessary. I'll be happy to unprotect these pages at a future date if there is a consensus to do so. -- Fropuff 03:22, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

## Special Ordered Sets

Hi all methies, I just started Special Ordered Sets, I did't find in wikipedia anywhere else. If it is a double please remove it - otherwise feel free to expand. PER9000 16:00, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

This page is for discussion of the mathematics portal. The place to discuss mathematics on Wikipedia is Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Mathematics. -- Fropuff 16:16, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

I am working on a guideline, Wikipedia:Writing about math. Can you people please look at it? --Ineffable3000 23:35, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

I don't think many people will read your message over here, Ineffable3000, so I'm copying it to the Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Mathematics page, where it will probably attract more attention.
Personally, I'm not real crazy about the proposed guideline. I'll try to provide more specific feedback in a few days, when I get back home. Right now I'm visiting my sister-in-law, so my time for this activity is limited. DavidCBryant 17:05, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

## Math and Measurement?

The top of the portal indicates that 'measurement' was used in the development of mathematical ideas. I am a bit confused becasue I have always considered math to just flow from axioms and, when you get right down to it, don't have to have anything to do with the real world. Please enlighten me.CaseKid 04:01, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Good morning, CaseKid! I suppose you're referring to this sentence:

It evolved, through the use of abstraction and logical reasoning, from counting, calculation, measurement, and the systematic study of the shapes and motions of physical objects.

The short answer to your question is that this sentence is about the history of mathematics. It describes the major processes in human intellectual history that have motivated the development of modern mathematics. If you examine the history of mathematics carefully, you'll notice that people like Archimedes and Newton and even Euler tended to take the idea that mathematics is all about the real world very seriously. Even Gauss was probably a mathematical realist – he famously carried out careful measurements of the internal angles of immense triangles (using surveying instruments) in an effort to determine whether Euclidean geometry applies to the real world. The view that you're espousing – that math just flows from the axioms – is called formalism. You can read about many other philosophical approaches to mathematics in this article.

Most historians of mathematics trace formalism back to Hilbert. Formalism is certainly the dominant philosophy of mathematics today, but other views are still extant. My own opinion is that mathematical realism, or Platonism, was the dominant view among mathematicians up until roughly 1800, when the discovery of non-Euclidean geometries led people to question axioms (well, one axiom – the parallel postulate) that had been taken for granted for thousands of years. Formalism has its roots in the ferment of 19th-century mathematics, and Hilbert is just the guy who enunciated a formal program for mathematics most clearly. DavidCBryant 12:49, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

## Featured Article Archive

When was the last time someone updated the Mathematics Featured article archive? It needs to be updated but I don't know how to do it.--Anthonynow12 14:05, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

## Interlingua

There is a Portal about Mathematics in Interlingua. Please add [[ia:Portal:Mathematica]] --190.10.0.110 01:50, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Done. -- Fropuff 02:00, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

## Did you know? / Poincaré conjecture

The page reads "... there are 7 unsolved mathematics problems whose solutions will earn you one million US dollars each?". Surely, given Perelman's proof of the Poincaré conjecture, there are now only 6? ArzelaAscoli 17:21, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Good point. Since, however, we don't yet know whether Perelman will be awarded the money, the page should be edited to reflect the current situation of 6 + ?. Charles Matthews 17:30, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Doesn't the sentence in the Did you know section mean that perelman declined his proof of the conjecture?

## Help!

Somebody do something with the picture of the month! Engusz from huwiki! 21:44, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, I did--but I must have done something wrong--the change didn't appear. Can an administrator set this straight?--Todd 22:12, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
ok, this time it worked--I wonder now what I changed before....--Todd 22:17, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

## News section?

What about introducing a news box from the world of mathematics, just as on the Wikipedia frontpage? --cslarsen 15:34, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

It's a great idea and one I've definitely thought about before. What we would need is a dedicated person or persons to update and maintain it. It would be a lot of work to keep it up to date. I would be willing to help design the box and incorporate it into the portal if anyone is interested. -- Fropuff 03:54, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

## Function(s) Topic

There is a link: [1] about it, but i can´t see a "Function(s)", topic at the portal.
Fsmaia 11:31, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

## Picture of the Month for July

When I checked the page we didn't have a picture of the month. I don't know how the process of selecting on works, but seeing as the page looked bad without one I pulled one out of the archive until a new one could found. Aiden Fisher 10:55, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

I have found an new picture that has been rated as a featured picture and added some text that was associated with it. Aiden Fisher 23:18, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

## Recent changes to Walsh function

On June 12th, an anonymous editor made some canges to Walsh function, which may or may not be valid. I don't know enough about the field to know if they are or not. Could somebody who understands the subject matter please take a look at Walsh function and make sure it's not just some subtle vandalism? Thanks. -- RoySmith (talk) 18:58, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

It appears that the anon reverted himself, so I guess this is a non-issue. By the way, math related discussion better go at WT:WPM which is watched by more people. Cheers, Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 02:17, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

## maths

we all know maths is 1 of the most toughest subjects in a students life and some times claims to be the waterloo.but however children hate maths it is the subject which will be useful wherever we go after our school lives.maths is a realy important part of our studies and we should never neglect it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 213.42.21.155 (talk) Grammar, also. --Paul Carpenter 20:19, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

## Spheres

In the "Did you know" on the Banach-Tarsch Paradox, shouldn't "spheres" be "balls"? (A sphere is the set of points a fixed distance from a center, whereas a ball is the set of points whose distance from the center is equal to or less than a fixed value.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nology (talk • contribs) 19:11, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

'Ball' is the correct mathematical term, yes, but given the informal tone of that sentence ('cut up and reassembled') I think 'sphere' is more appropriate: it's intended for people who might not know the Bourbaki ball/sphere distinction. Algebraist 17:04, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

that you cannot knot strings in 4-dimensions? You can, however, knot 2-dimensional surfaces like spheres. (a sphere is 3 dimensional). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.182.30.26 (talk) 07:12, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

## Panjer Recursion

hi! could you please have a little look at Panjer Recursion. i wrote this article new and i dont know how these mathematical articles here are usually written. maybe i made other format/style/math errors thanks! --Philtime 15:21, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Please make your request at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Mathematics instead of here. -- Fropuff 16:23, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

## The article of the week is vandalized...

...and I don't know how to fix it. Randomblue 13:06, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Fixed. The edit link in the box'll get you to the article. Gscshoyru 13:12, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

## Eigenfactor

besides http://www.eigenfactor.org is this a terminus mathematicus? -- Cherubino 18:48, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

## Article of the week

The article of the week is not being shown. Don't know how to fix it. Goldencako 00:57, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

## Did you know Millennium Prize Problems

I admit I don't fully understand the situation, but my belief is that Grigori Perelman solved the Poincaré conjecture. If this is true, then the 'Did you know...?' section is incorrect as it says that '...there are 7 unsolved mathematics problems...'. I don't want to change it myself, for fear of being wrong, but I thought I should voice my concerns. asyndeton 22:08, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

The proof seems correct, but as far as I know, the Clay institute has not officially validated it yet. The standard is pretty high, given the amount of money involved--I suspect it won't be much longer before the "7" can be changed into a "6". —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tdvance (talkcontribs) 18:17, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
OK thank you. It says in Poincaré conjecture in the picture's caption that Perelman proved the answer was 'yes' so I'll change that and all should be well again. asyndeton 18:22, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

## Article of the Week Archive

On the Math Portal's main page, the Article of the Week section used to have a link to its archive (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal:Mathematics/Featured_article_archive). The link is no longer there, and the archive no longer gets updated! I recommend we bring back the link to the archive and keep it updated. Thoughts? 198.162.158.16 20:16, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

THE CHUNK METHOD Xb times xc=72 this is th so called Chunk method in which they teach us here at the ITT tech. Ammy X i dont know expactly how this works but some how the girl that thinks 1 times 0 is 1 came up with this new and revolutionary formula. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dvineone1 (talkcontribs) 12:49, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

## Vandalism efforts

Encyclopaedia Dramatica has a page promoting the vandalism of wiki maths equations. A page they linked, Runge–Kutta methods, has already been hit a little. The edits are supposed to be subtle so people won't recognise it as vandalism. Just a heads up to make sure the edits are correct. :( Rothery (talk) 10:27, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

## Stalled move request

Two weeks ago I proposed to move Lists of mathematics topics to Portal:Mathematics/Lists. The request stalled for reasons explained at the WP:RM page (5th bullet of the linked section). More elaborate explanations for the stalling exist, most of them linked from the indicated WP:RM page section.

Basicly I ask the people of the Mathematics portal (and the mathematics project) to weigh in whether they think it a good idea to accept the "list of lists" page as a sub-page of the portal, hoping this would get the situation afloat again. The actual move proposal is discussed at Talk:Lists_of_mathematics_topics#Requested_move.

One of the issues is whether the mathematics "list of lists" page should lose its "featured" status. If it is kept in main namespace, I think it should, for WP:V and WP:NOR reasons (e.g. the only external sources are mentioned in the intro, second paragraph, but explaining they are deliberately ignored for no other apparent reason than wiki organisation). If the list is moved to portal namespace that reason for de-featuring ceases to exist (although featuredness should possibly be reiterated as a portal page). --Francis Schonken (talk) 10:54, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

PS, I proposed Portal:Mathematics/Lists as new page name by analogy to dozens of "list of lists" pages in Portal namespace --Francis Schonken (talk) 11:00, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

## Picture of the month

I'm a little concerned about the current picture of the month, Image:Joconde.gif. Looking at the picture I was surprised to see that the outer box started at the hair line rather than the top of the head. Trying to track down the source via the common page it seems to come from [2] my Spanish is poor but this looks like it might be a bit of original research. --Salix alba (talk) 14:15, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

$2(a - \tfrac{b} {2})^2 + (a - \tfrac{1} {2})^2 + \frac{{(b + 1)^2 }} {2} + a^2 + \frac{{17}} {4} > 0$

## Featured article - algorithm

I'm sort of new here, but I've noticed that "Algorithm" seems to be the featured Math article pretty often. Is that normal/good? I'm not even sure how featured articles for portals are selected. Just an observation. Helios Entity 2 (talk) 22:04, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Since 6 November, the featured article has been chosen randomly using Portal:Mathematics/Random portal component. The possible choices are at Portal:Mathematics/Selected article/1-Portal:Mathematics/Selected article/39. More can be added by creating a new precis at Portal:Mathematics/Selected article/40 and changing the 39 in line 12 of Portal:Mathematics itself to 40. Algebraist 03:11, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

## Not existing article about Dürer's Conjecture

Hi, sorry for my bad English. There's a conjecture, that's missing from English Wikipedia. There are: an article about the conjecture, a specialized solution from Daniel Bezdek. Other documents are mainly Hungarian, so I won't write them here. I want to congratulate to you, this portal is great! 78.92.67.31 (talk) 17:09, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

## Intuitive introductions to articles?

It would be nice if more of the articles had a one- or two-line definition that was devoid of mathematical jargon and notation as possible so that the readers can quickly understand what the concept is in general terms. I fully understand the need to be rigorous, but mathematicians often talk in lectures about generating intuition first and then giving rigorous definitions that map those intuitions onto known principles of proof. It would be useful for wikipedia articles to proceed in the same way, perhaps with an indication that the introductions are for intuition and not to be taken as 100% rigorous.

Then if the reader decides he needs to understand gerbes more he can read on to the more academic characterization. After all, disciplines can have differing notational and naming conventions that may make a highly precise definition unnecessarily obscure.

I'm just talking about the first couple lines of articles, the rest can be kept as is. And I fully understand that wikipedia must not sacrifice precision for intuitiveness. If this is not possible, is there a way to have intuitive versions of the articles coexist with the regular version? SmartPatrol (talk) 18:54, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

This is actually recommended already, in Wikipedia:Manual of Style (mathematics)#Article introduction, though it could be followed more widely. Unfortunately this is one of the hardest parts of writing a maths article, and in many cases it's not clear how it could be achieved, or even if it would be desirable to do so. The first example random clicking has given me is Hilbert's theorem (differential geometry): I'm not sure what could be said without jargon here, though I'm prepared for a more skillful expositor to prove me wrong. In any case, no-one reads this talk page: the place you want is WT:WPM. Algebraist 17:01, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

## Related portal icons

I think you're after mixing up the logos for the cryptography and computer science portals at the bottom of the page. 87.33.81.76 (talk) 11:52, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Good catch, thanks. I've fixed it now. -- Fropuff (talk) 17:36, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

## Pythagorean Theorem

Does the Pythagorean theorem really deserve a spot under geometry? Its not a type of geometry, unlike trigonometry, topology, differential geometry etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mattsteadman (talk • contribs) 23:25, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

## Thanks

I'd like to thank those of you who edit and write so many great mathematics articles. I'm a third year university student and frequently refer to wikipedia on topics such as manifolds, lie groups, measure theory and analysis for a general overview, to recall things I've forgotten or for another viewpoint when I'm not understanding something. I find it a valuable resource and know many other students who do also. 86.128.129.218 (talk) 13:42, 18 April 2008 (UTC) GJS